Together with his blood-soaked tales of violence and vengeance like The Night time Comes for Us and Headshot, Timo Tjahjanto earned a repute as one of many world’s goriest motion administrators. However he doesn’t see himself that means.
Tjahjanto started his filmmaking profession making slasher films as half of the Mo brothers, teaming up together with his longtime good friend Kimo Stamboel. For the reason that finish of their formal partnership, the Mo brothers have largely labored on their very own initiatives, with Stamboel working within the horror style and Tjahjanto primarily (however not completely) making violent motion films.
Tjahjanto took the motion world by storm with 2018’s The Night time Comes for Us, a brutal thriller led by two of Indonesian cinema’s foremost martial arts stars, Iko Uwais and Joe Taslim. The film sometimes will get labeled as “motion horror,” despite its pretty typical crime-thriller narrative, due to how unflinchingly Tjahjanto depicts excessive, bone-breaking, blood-soaked violence. The fashionable, carnage-filled struggle sequences left a mark on motion cinema different administrators are nonetheless scrambling to match.
His new film, The Shadow Strays, premiered on the Toronto Worldwide Movie Competition in September, and eventually dropped on Netflix on Oct. 17. It follows a teenage soldier who’s being educated as a member of an elite group of top-secret assassins referred to as the Shadows. When a mission goes mistaken, she’s sidelined by the Shadows and will get entangled in a dispute between her younger neighbor and native gangsters. Like most Tjahjanto initiatives, the movie options a number of decapitations and “gallons” of blood. (The director estimated 85% of the blood was sensible — like many splatter followers, the person loves squibs.) It’s additionally considered one of 2024’s greatest motion films.
However Tjahjanto doesn’t think about himself a very gory filmmaker — he sees his films as a method to be trustworthy about real-world penalties of violence. A self-described “indulgent” filmmaker, Tjahjanto — sporting a 9 Inch Nails shirt and feeling “exhausted and relieved” after lately wrapping filming on the upcoming No person 2 — spoke with Polygon about his method to gore in motion, his cinematic influences, and sticking with sensible blood when the remainder of the trade is shifting to CG results.
This interview has been edited for concision and readability.
Polygon: I consider you as one of many gorier motion administrators working in the present day. Do you see your self that means?
Timo Tjahjanto: I don’t know. I don’t actually suppose so. Granted, I haven’t seen them — not as a result of I don’t wish to see them, however simply due to the timing of all of it and the accessibility of all of it — however I’ve heard there are movies like Kill and Undertaking Wolf Looking that appear to be doing fairly OK in that division. From what little clips I’ve seen, they appear to be means bloodier.
I believe there was a part in my life — once I simply began as a filmmaker, I did this little movie with Kimo [Stamboel], my good friend. It’s referred to as Macabre, one of many first Indonesian slasher movies. And I believe on the time, our objective was like, Let’s be the goriest Indonesian flick ever. However weirdly, after The Night time Comes for Us and every part, I simply don’t really feel like I used to be essentially aiming for gore. I believe it’s simply that there must be a sure, weirdly sufficient, respect to violence and what it may do to the human physique. I really feel like we now have to, indirectly, maintain ourselves accountable as filmmakers to point out simply how traumatizing violence might be.
We reside in a violent world. When you see what’s on the web, what’s on previously often known as Twitter, X, simply the accessibility of violent content material — individuals from lots of components of America, for instance, there’s lots of people getting riled up and begin beating one another up for nothing. Not that I’m saying America is the one violent place. I believe the world usually has grow to be a way more violent place, or way more uncovered to the media. It’s bizarre when individuals see my movies like, Holy shit, that’s so gory and violent! I’m like, Man, have you ever seen the true world? It’s so fucking loopy on the market that I really feel like generally my movie is a PG model of it.
I’m glad you introduced up the respect for violence, as a result of one of many causes I’m drawn to your method to gore in motion is as a result of it feels extra trustworthy. When you’re not exhibiting that stage of destruction, you’re sanitizing the violence, and never being trustworthy with the viewer in regards to the precise results of what’s taking place.
That’s what I all the time attempt to do. I believe the human physique is weirdly fragile and resilient on the identical time. If any of your bones have been damaged, or in case you’ve ever had a deep reduce, it’s so bizarre how biology reacts to all of it.
However past that, gore also can add stakes to a scene, it may add pleasure, it may add humor. How do you steadiness these parts?
Properly, that’s the factor. I believe at a sure stage, violence has to grow to be humorous. And I realized this from, or I copied this from, the good Takashi Miike. I believe he’s all the time strolling that line, realizing that the world is a loopy, fucked-up place, and a method you’ll be able to cope with it’s by utilizing lots of humor. When you watch one thing like Ichi the Killer, for instance, that factor is darkish, man. In Takashi Miike’s world, every part is honest and sq.. Girls, males, we’re each able to violence, and we’re each able to being the sufferer. And I attempt to do this in my movies.
One instance I believe is attention-grabbing is The Large 4, which has a tonal distinction out of your different films.
Properly, I believe simply because it’s gory doesn’t essentially imply it must be a feel-bad film. I believe that works fairly effectively. Unhealthy Boys is usually a feel-good expertise, and it has its moments of violence. And gore, particularly in case you’re speaking about Unhealthy Boys II — Michael Bay actually pushes the restrict to what kinetic violence might be. And I all the time really feel like, you may make a much less violent movie and it turns into a a lot gloomier movie, however you too can make a way more splattery and “head getting blown off by a shotgun” film, and it nonetheless in the long run has a heartwarming high quality to it. Take a look at Shaun of the Useless, considered one of my favorites. And that factor is the last word feel-good movie… relying on the way you have a look at it.
You introduced up Macabre earlier. Do you suppose your horror roots have an effect by way of your notion of gore in motion?
Sort of, sure. However having mentioned that, I believe it’s additionally childishness. Look, a part of the wonder in horror is, you don’t essentially must be gory by way of the method to thrills. And as a lot as I might like to say, “Oh, I’m very well-versed in horror,” I believe proper now I’m solely well-versed in a particular sort of horror, which is one that’s usually violent. I believe lots of that comes from me rising up on Friday the thirteenth and Texas Chain Noticed Bloodbath. Texas Chain Noticed Bloodbath has such a big impact on me by way of how I have a look at violence, which is relentless.
I most likely watch it perhaps a few times a yr. It by no means ceases to amaze me. Whenever you’re in your teenagers and also you watch it, you suppose it’s the bloodiest movie ever. After which if you watch it once more after you’ve grown up, there’s hardly any blood in it. It’s pure terror and it’s pure viscerality with out truly exhibiting you something. And there lies the genius of Tobe Hooper making this movie. So yeah, I’m just a bit bit much less disciplined than individuals like Tobe Hooper.
I beloved what you needed to say to some critics of The Shadow Strays about how filmmaking is an indulgent act, and I actually respect that you simply see it that means, that making artwork is one thing that you simply do for your self, and the hope is that different individuals are on board with you.
I believe that’s the factor. I don’t imply that to assault a critique: I believe once I noticed the critique, I used to be like, Oh, effectively, I agree with lots of it. I believe truthfully, I’m the type of filmmaker who all the time goes for character first and plotting later. In order that’s why my plots are usually simplistic. And I do admit that I really feel, effectively, most tales have been informed. For me, it’s higher to depend on the humanity of the characters and hope that the viewers can maintain onto that.
However when individuals say, “Hey, an excessive amount of self-indulgence might be an excessive amount of of a very good factor,” I really feel like, Properly, no. As a result of right here I’m given sufficient freedom, fortunately, by Netflix to do nearly every part that I wish to do, and I believe I’ve to kind of take pleasure in it relatively than restrain myself, regardless that I’m nonetheless restraining myself. If I went full indulgence, I believe you’d see lots of kinkier shit in it, and all these sick kind of violent photographs that I’ve. I all the time really feel like, a movie-watching expertise, you may have to have the ability to give every part you’ve obtained to the viewers. It’s not like a sequence, it’s not like The Boys, the place you would possibly fail within the first episode or second episode, however you may make it up within the eighth episode.
I simply really feel like, Properly, I’ve this many hours, and I simply wish to give my viewers the shit that they need. Take a look at RRR — that movie is self-indulgent as fuck, and it’s probably the greatest movies ever made on the planet. I simply really feel there’s a time for self-restraint, however motion is a kind of genres the place you simply must carry on pulling the set off. Sometime I’ll be a greater author and I’ll most likely do higher plotting, however for now, I’m nonetheless studying.
The depiction of blood and gore has modified over time, with new know-how main lots of productions to maneuver away from sensible blood and squibs and over to VFX blood. What’s your philosophy on that?
It’s bizarre. I noticed that there was a critique [of The Shadow Strays] that claims, Oh, the usage of CGI blood. Weirdly, Shadow Strays is like 85% sensible blood. I believe that it’s simply due to the know-how that I take advantage of, which is lots of blood tubing and all that stuff. It does look extreme to the purpose that you simply suppose it’s truly CGI. I pleasure myself in taking lots of time for The Shadow Strays. Issues can get lengthy within the taking pictures course of, simply because inserting all these squibs and blood tubes takes time.
That’s what I all the time hear, is how a lot it expands the funds and your time simply from cleansing up between takes.
Precisely. And costumes, and all these little issues. Luckily, making movies in Indonesia, I can kind of afford it. So I truly indulge the fuck out of creating all these issues. Watching The Shadow Strays so many instances by way of modifying, I had the suspicion individuals are going to suppose that is truly CGI blood, regardless that it’s truly meticulous condom use and timed blood tubes and all that stuff. I’m a proponent of utilizing as many squibs as attainable. I do know that’s cumbersome. However actors react higher to it. They react, they really feel the ache. They really feel like, Oh shit, blood’s actually spurting out of me. And that all the time helps.
There are some enhancements, simply because generally the blood doesn’t redirect the way in which it ought to. However man, we have been having enjoyable. There have been all the time gallons of blood behind the digicam the place we pump it up there. Particularly for the primary sequence — that complete Japanese sequence is me being impressed by Takeshi Kitano’s Zatoichi, however he was utilizing CGI blood. I used to be pondering, I wish to be like Kitano, when he simply utterly goes batshit with blood, however I’m going to attempt to use sensible blood tubes. In order that’s what we did, man.
You’ve talked about Kitano, you’ve talked about Miike, you’ve talked about Tobe Hooper. Are there some other massive figures for you on the subject of depicting violence on display and their use of gore?
Martin Scorsese. When he’s taking pictures violence, it’s nearly like he generally reverts again to being a younger filmmaker. And I believe he all the time has that spirit of being a younger filmmaker. That’s the fantastic thing about him. He might be 89 and he nonetheless shoots like a 35-year-old Sam Peckinpah on coke and LSD. The most effective violent scenes that I believe is usually missed is definitely in The Departed, when Jack Nicholson and Ray Winstone obtained ambushed. Identical to this fucking crash zoom lands and [there’s] fucking blood and [mimics the blood spraying everywhere] and all that shit. And I used to be like, Man, that’s fucking lovely! I wish to steal that shit. However I nonetheless don’t have sufficient ability to do it. Sometime!
Do you may have a favourite spot of gore in The Shadow Strays?
Aurora [Ribero], who performs 13, I all the time mentioned to her, “You might be expert, however you might be additionally clumsy. That’s the entire level of your character. You could have lots of endurance since you are younger,” as she is really in actual life, “however you might be usually clumsy in your combating. However as soon as we hand you a sharp-edge weapon, you go berserk.” Every time she’s given any weapon of sharp edge, be it a kitchen knife, be it a fucking screwdriver, she simply goes loopy. I all the time beloved that.
By the top of taking pictures, she grew to become so good at it. It’s so fucking cool. She by no means had any martial arts expertise, and each time she does the stabbing, it’s nearly like any person who’s been residing in jail for 30 years and is a grasp shanker. She’s so good. And there’s a complete sequence later within the movie, when she fights a sure any person and he or she simply makes use of a screwdriver to go loopy — I believe that’s considered one of my favorites, simply due to how ridiculous it seemed with the blood and every part, and simply how effectively it is sensible, as a result of at this level she doesn’t have something to lose. She’s simply going loopy, and I like that.
The Shadow Strays is on Netflix now.
